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Podfic Entries
I've been trying to add more entries to Fanlore about podfic and have run into a bit of an issue. When I was creating new pages I was titling them "Title (podfic)" to help distinguish that this was an entry about the podfic not about the fic, which normally has the same title.
The problem though, is that this goes against current Fanlore policies to only add an honourific to an entry if there's a conflicting entry of the same name and there's a need to disambiguate. So the gardeners, rightly, were changing the names of the pages I created to remove the honourific.
And while I totally understand the reason for the policy, it still made me nervous because without the (podfic) in the title it just wasn't as clear that the entry was a podfic entry. Sure enough, one of the entries I made was later edited in a way to make it seem more like a fic entry (it's since been changed back and with other additions).
So I'd like to have a conversation about what we can do to make sure that podfic entries are welcomed on Fanlore and that future editors, trying to be helpful but not aware that the entry is a podfic entry, won't end up morphing the entries into fic entries. I've spoken to some individual podficcers about this as well as some of the Fanlore gardeners, and here's some of the suggestions we've come up with so far:
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klb suggested that one way to deal with it is to include "podfic" in the title, but not as an honourific. So "Title podfic" would be how the pages are named. Most of the time, in fannish day-to-day conversations, people will often specify when they're talking about a podfic if the context of the situation doesn't already imply it. And when you look at places like AO3 or general fandom comms, many podficcers add that sort of distinction when they post their work. So adding "podfic" to the title does reflect podfic fandom today.
Sparcicle suggested that we add a note to the top of podfic pages saying "This page is about the podfic. For the story, see Title (story)."
This will give an immediate visual clue to those viewing the page that this is a page for the podfic and gives them a link to the fic page (or the opportunity to create a page for the fic if it doesn't already exist, as it won't in most cases).
There was some debate in the talk page where this was brought up that (story) is perhaps not the correct honourific and, while I'm throwing my 2 cents in, I'd like to say that I'd prefer to see the fic getting an honourific like (fanfic) instead, since the podfic is a story too (as are vids and comics and many other fanarts). In fact, what the fic and podfic share is the story, what we need to disambiguate is which medium the story is being told in.
aethel suggested adding a grey banner to the infobox to make it clearer that the template is a podfic template.
Personally, I think I like options 2 and 3 together best, but I thought I'd ask others how they feel before I start creating a bunch more pages. And please feel free to add more suggestions!
The problem though, is that this goes against current Fanlore policies to only add an honourific to an entry if there's a conflicting entry of the same name and there's a need to disambiguate. So the gardeners, rightly, were changing the names of the pages I created to remove the honourific.
And while I totally understand the reason for the policy, it still made me nervous because without the (podfic) in the title it just wasn't as clear that the entry was a podfic entry. Sure enough, one of the entries I made was later edited in a way to make it seem more like a fic entry (it's since been changed back and with other additions).
So I'd like to have a conversation about what we can do to make sure that podfic entries are welcomed on Fanlore and that future editors, trying to be helpful but not aware that the entry is a podfic entry, won't end up morphing the entries into fic entries. I've spoken to some individual podficcers about this as well as some of the Fanlore gardeners, and here's some of the suggestions we've come up with so far:
klb suggested that one way to deal with it is to include "podfic" in the title, but not as an honourific. So "Title podfic" would be how the pages are named. Most of the time, in fannish day-to-day conversations, people will often specify when they're talking about a podfic if the context of the situation doesn't already imply it. And when you look at places like AO3 or general fandom comms, many podficcers add that sort of distinction when they post their work. So adding "podfic" to the title does reflect podfic fandom today.Sparcicle suggested that we add a note to the top of podfic pages saying "This page is about the podfic. For the story, see Title (story)."
This will give an immediate visual clue to those viewing the page that this is a page for the podfic and gives them a link to the fic page (or the opportunity to create a page for the fic if it doesn't already exist, as it won't in most cases).
There was some debate in the talk page where this was brought up that (story) is perhaps not the correct honourific and, while I'm throwing my 2 cents in, I'd like to say that I'd prefer to see the fic getting an honourific like (fanfic) instead, since the podfic is a story too (as are vids and comics and many other fanarts). In fact, what the fic and podfic share is the story, what we need to disambiguate is which medium the story is being told in.
aethel suggested adding a grey banner to the infobox to make it clearer that the template is a podfic template. Personally, I think I like options 2 and 3 together best, but I thought I'd ask others how they feel before I start creating a bunch more pages. And please feel free to add more suggestions!
no subject
The "problem" of someone putting fic info onto the podfic page does not happen because someone is confused. It happens because they approach the two as belonging together. And on plenty of pages the fanfic and the podfic are covered on the same page, because editors there felt that the best approach.
I don't think a header in some podfic articles that says that this article is just for the podfic, is the best solution for a relatively complex issue, i.e. ensuring that podfic aspects don't simply vanish in fic dominated environment while also allowing and inviting edits for both podfic and fic. It tries to anticipate future editing in a wiki, before even knowing what additions someone may want to make. What if an editor came along who wanted to compare the impact a fic had on them to the podfic version of the same? or contrast the reception or something else that touches on both fic and podfic? Where would they put that in an article that preemptively tried to constrain future additions? An article that the initial editor, who was focused on the podfic only, envisioned to be about the podfic only may grow into an article about podfic and fic aspects without the second editor being a "concern troll" or shortchanging the podfic content.
The examples in the wiki where someone asked their additions to remain in specific forms caused IMO unnecessary editing trouble down the line. (I'm thinking of that long quote that used to be on the Slash page and is now on the Slash Controversies page, that everybody had to work around, because it is interesting, but can't be broken up or rephrased.)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-09-23 01:17 am (UTC)(link)I do agree with you that in many cases it makes sense for information about a fic and the podfic(s) based on it to appear in the same article, especially if there's not a whole lot to say about one or the other. In cases where there is not enough info for a whole page about the fic, it'd be reasonable to add a short "This podfic was based on the story by [so-and-so] which [minimal information]" on a podfic page the same way it's reasonable to say "This story was made into a podfic by [so-and-so] which [minimal information]" on a page about the story. But the idea is that they're separate fanworks and should be treated at such, even though one is based on the other. (FWIW, I feel the same way about fanart/fic trailers/whatever based on fic.)
Hope that makes sense!
--sparc
no subject
no subject
If someone has meaningful information to add and wants to restructure the page to turn it into a fic and podfic page they still can! Because, yeah, that's how PPOV works. But if I am willing to make a bunch of entries on podfic, which I feel deserve their own page, I'm not obligated to talk about the fic if I don't want to. That's also how PPOV works.
I'm not asking that Fanlore ban people ever adding fic information to podfic entries. I'm not even asking that podfic be treated like a special snowflake. I am pointing out how the current policies are discouraging content that I care about and how some fanworks don't fit the standard mould they set up and suggesting that they look into that and help me come up with a solution.
no subject
I think in the end we'll agree to a bit of pruning and a bit of painting. I don't think we'll all agree that the stop sign needs to come down.