fun with subpages!

[aethel]

I've been flailing around Fanlore for some time now, trying to figure out what should be a subpage and what shouldn't, and I thought I'd collect some flailings here instead of continuing to pester people on the wiki:


1. First, some types of info we are currently using subpages for (correct me if I'm wrong): character pages, pairing pages, fanzine lists, fandom glossaries, subfandoms, and sometimes fandom-specific concepts or events. Also, because fandom doesn't fit neatly into boxes, there are plenty of special cases where I thought the use of subpages was inspired: see Vividcon, Fanlore Live.

2. Subpages are useful for keeping track of related material in the absence of fandom-specific category tags.

3. Subpages are especially useful for complicated fandoms. They are also a great place to store long lists.

4. However, finding a particular subpage may become difficult if there are a whole lot for one fandom. I imagine this will be the case for some comics fandoms and Harry Potter. On the other hand, we don't have any examples yet (?), so maybe I'm just borrowing trouble.

4a. Recently (and a while ago) there have been a few discussions on where to put fandom-specific glossary terms--vocabulary subpages could make the subpage list explode, but if we put them in top-level pages, they could get lost. I personally am in favor of keeping all glossary terms as top-level pages, but I've also encountered topics that seemed broad enough and central enough to the fandom to fit as a subpage as well. (See Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Soul, Star Trek/Vulcan. On the other hand, we have Pon Farr.) Hm, but does that mean they shouldn't be in the glossary category?? The "Fandom Glossary" subpage idea seems like a good solution (see The Sentinel/Fandom Glossary)--links to top-level pages can be collected in one place along with short definitions that may not merit a separate page. However, because it's been discussed on a few isolated talk pages with few participants, I'm worried that it's not "official."

4b. I scanned the Glossary category yesterday; most terms look to have pan-fandom appeal, but there were also pages like EWE, Fine Kirkpatrick Ass, Muldertorture, Mensaverse, Malfoycest.

5. The wiki seems to be gravitating more toward putting fandom-related stuff in subpages than it did in the beginning. This means that there are some older top-level pages and newer subpages that are covering the same type of info. Example: Ancients (Stargate) vs. Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Soul. But of course these particular fandom-specific concepts are special cases, since their fandoms include more than one show (and more than one top-level page). Both organization schemes have merit, imho: "Ancients" looks pretty, but "Soul" is easy to find. Whatever the decision, can we have a rule written up and placed somewhere obvious?

6. I personally find subpages to be unattractive. This bias affects how I approach the naming of new pages, so hard-and-fast rules (whatever they may be) would help me a lot.

In conclusion: I just now found the Help:Subpages. I think it's time to update it! I'd like to see a list that clearly states what we're sure we're using subpages for, what we're sure we're NOT using subpages for, and what we're just not sure about yet. What say you?

Comments

[arduinna]

I'm partial to the Fandom Glossary subpage idea not just for tidiness, but because for a newbie to a fandom, having a list of fandom-specific terms to refer to can be incredibly useful - far more so than having to know what terms to type into a search box.

I'd really like to see the top-level but fandom-specific glossary terms get moved into something like a Fandom Glossary page for that reason; someone who doesn't know XF or Popslash isn't necessarily going to know to type in "Muldertorture" or "Fine Kirkpatrick Ass" when they're trying to read up on the fandom, and there's no guarantee that those terms will be linked on the fandom's main page.

I have the feeling that I'm helping to push things more toward subpages in general, only because I really like things to be organized and connected, and with categories being only broad and general, I start to get twitchy. *g* I want people to have one place where they can go to find out about whatever it is they're interested in.

If the category system winds up changing or expanding, it might free things up a bit.

[aethel]

I see what you mean about searching, but I feel like we can have it both ways. Someone who wants to check out a fandom can look at the glossary page to see a linked list of relevant terms, and someone who uses Fanlore to check out a term they don't understand can search it and be taken to a page specifically about that term.

I've been trying to work out where my antipathy for subpages on individual glossary terms is coming from: subpages create a hierarchy of ownership, but words want to be free! I think in this age of multifannishness and fannish osmosis, it's inaccurate to represent terms as only belonging to one fandom. Especially terms like pon farr that everyone(?) knows, but are still tied to a particular fandom. See also: David Hewlett, How Are You So Awesome?

I'm leaning toward fandom categories myself--then we wouldn't have to agonize over where to put things. Or at least I'd stop agonizing.

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I'm strongly in favor of either using subpages for fandom-specific glossary terms or moving them to a Fandom Glossary page for each fandom (or at least linking them from there!) I think the current system is hugely confusing, and I like the idea of having all the information about a specific fandom appear as subpages for that fandom -- a lot of these aren't broad fandom-wide terms, they're things that would appear on the main fandom page (or on a character or pairing page) if there were room to talk about them there, but there aren't, so it seems reasonable to me to put them on a subpage. But if we're not going to do that, then none of the fandom-specific glossary terms should be subpages -- right now it's not consistent either way.

[ratcreature]

You can't find anything in the cluttered subpage lists. They are not good if there are many terms. To make it readable you need a manual list anyway, so there is no sense to bother make these all subpages, only to need a ton of top level redirects on top of this. A single glossary page would be good for each fandom, but not having 50+ terms in a subpage clutter cloud in an info box, which can be easily reached if you have a subpage for every pairing, every character and then one for each fandom-specific term.